2-stroke oil ptr diesel & FAP

[Citronel Find all posts View Profile Close Citronel]

Dupa ce am studiat putin articolul de mai jos am decis sa fac un test cu uleiul 2T adaugat in motorina sa vad daca chiar are efect benefic ptr motor si FAP.
Am sa monitorizez cu Lexia sa vad daca se modifica ceva la corectia injectoarelor, presiunea in pompa de injectie si la km parcursi inainte de regenerarea FAP-ului, si... relativ "la urechea mea muzicala" dar cel mai vizibil cum suna motorul si cum trage.

Am cumparat astazi 1L Mobil Extra 2T Semi Syntetic coresp normelor JASO FC; ISO E-GC, E-GD; API TC; TISI la 35ron care intentionez sa-l folosesc la ~5 plinuri.

"2-stroke oil and diesel

To all interested:
due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negativ impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
One more information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.

To all:

Fill in 0,3 litre of 2-stroke oil with every tank filling. You will notice a surprisingly big difference in the smoothness of your engine running, the noise level is reduced, particularely when the engine is cold, and the fuel ecconomy will increase besides the described other advantages.
The 2-stroke oil I can recommend from my own experience (value for price) is the Liqui Moly 2-stoke oil, semi-synthetic, Product no. 1052 (blue plastic bottle). The use of 2-stroke oil is recommended also for diesel engines without DPF. If you "forget" to fill in the little dosis of 2-stroke oil - no problem. Just fill it in the next time.
Everybody who has used the 2-stroke oil in his/her diesel engine has confirmed that they could not have done better.

Do not use fully synthetic 2-stroke oil, as too expensive, and you do not really need this high quality for your purpose. Semi-synthetic will do.

The use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will under normal circumstances not be evident, as the 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel by forming an emulsion, which will not seperate.
As I have said, we have to undergo every 2 years a pollution control inspection by our TUV, and the emission values as measured are by far better with use of 2-stroke oil than without. I have not come accross any case in which a car manufacturer has waived its guarantee obligo for cars which have used this 2-stroke oil (off course, not knowing this).
Dismantling the test diesel engines after the 2-stroke oil test has revealed that such engines have been in an extroardinary clean and top condition. So why should any car manufacturer have any reason to waive any guarantees (for whatever technical reasons) if the concerned engine is otherwise in a clean and top condition.

Why car manufacturers do not recommend 2-stroke oil

You may all know that Mercedes Benz have conducted in 2007 a long distance reliability test with a number of Mercedes E-Class 320 cdi from Paris to Beijing. Due to the fact that the diesel quality in East European Countries, Russia and China does not meet the DIN requirements, and Mercedes did not want to take the risk of their engines to flopp due to lousy fuel, the total tour has been accompanied by diesel tanks to re-fuel the E-Class cdi's. Selected members of the Mercedes clientele could apply to participate in selected parts of this test-tour, and advocats and notaries had to certify the correctness of this long term reliability test.
Although Mercedes does not like it published or made public, it is a fact that the diesel-fuel used for this test did contain 2-stroke oil to grease the high pressure pump components and to keep the engines clean during this marathon.
Why our car manufacturers do not officially allow the homoeophatic addition of 2-stroke oil to the diesel fuel has many reasons, mostly of legal nature. Besides this, which car manufacturer has any interest in excessive reliability of their engines? Their repair shops will have great problems.
Meanwhile the "2-stroke-oil to diesel" issue has attracted the interest of a number of Universities in Germany, as this 2-stroke oil has shown to have amazing poperties if added in a small dosis to diesel fuel (1:200), especially the positive impact on air pollution, reduced fuel consumption and improved long term reliability of the diesel engine. The pro and con discussions will go on for a while. But as soon as an accademic report has been published by one of our Universities, this will change very fast.
By the way: all car manufacturers reject the addition of any fuel "additive" in their cars, and warn that guarantee MAY be affected. Nobody says, that guarantee WILL be rejected. 2-stroke oil in its properties is not an additive, as you add oil to oil if you "dope" you fuel with a dosis of 2-stroke oil. The dosis of 2-stroke oil in your diesel-fuel is very difficult to analyse, as every (chemical) analysis has the main function to identify substances which are harmful. But 2-stroke oil has proven not to be harmful at all, on the contrary!
Personally, I use 2-stroke oil now for many years in all of my diesel cars (my present business car is a Mercedes 320 cdi DPF Automatic). And I never had any problems whatsoever.

Yamaha-Fan"

http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic878.html

p.s.
All credit to: Yamaha-Fan

[SonyAD Find all posts View Profile Close SonyAD]

Ăsta e uleiul la care se referă:
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/p...id/e_1052.html

Se ştie că biodiesel-ul are onctuozitate şi lubricitate benefică sistemului de injecţie superioară motorinei din petrol, cu tot cu sulf. Iar biodiesel deja se adaugă, prin lege, la motorina vāndută. 2%, volumetric parcă.

Să zicem că www.biodiesel.org nu sunt foarte parţiali:
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/f.../Lubricity.PDF

The reasoning behind Stanadyne’s support of 2% biodiesel makes biodiesel an ideal solution to the existing lubricity problem with diesel fuel—while supporting other environmental, energy security, and economic development initiatives. As EPA forces the further removal of sulfur from diesel fuel in 2006, which will undoubtedly worsen fuel lubricity, the concentration of biodiesel can be raised to that necessary to fully protect
this future fuel as well.

These test results also showed a significant improvement in lubricity when adding biodiesel to all three of these fuels, although the EPA and CARB fuel chosen for these tests were already above the required lubricity level. In fact, biodiesel tested higher in lubricity than any other diesel fuel tested at the Institute. The conclusions drawn by the researchers from Southwest Research Institute were:

“Biodiesel fuels consisting of methyl esters of soybean oil had excellent scuffing and adhesive wear resistance that exceeds those of the best conventional diesel fuels.”

University of Idaho:

http://www.uiweb.uidaho.edu/bioenerg...ication/06.pdf

Research conducted using 1-2 percent blends of biodiesel mixed with petroleum diesel fuel revealed an increase in lubricity (6). HFRR test procedures using a two percent blend of biodiesel reduced the wear scar diameter by nearly 60 percent (from 513 to 200 microns).

Apropo:

They have also determined that the removal of the sulfur has not lowered the lubricity of the fuel, rather, the removal of oxygen and nitrogen during desulphurization has resulted in a diesel fuel that is low in lubricity.

Mă īntreb doar cu frică dacă motorina noastră respectă standardele şi reglementările europene, că doar se ştie cāt de mult ne vor răul Europenii... :w00t:

Mai īntāi cu normele Euro apoi motorină desulfurizată pt. lipsa problemelor cu filtrul fap, uleiuri fără cenuşă, acum biodiesel. Nişte ecologişti comunişti.

Īn final, uite aici link-uri cu mulţi aditivi de diesel care "nu-şi merită banii"("any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money"), tot de la liqui moly:

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/p...ml?Open&site=1

De toate, de la cifră cetanică la aditivi de ungere, ardere mai bună cu mai puţină cenuşă, dizolvare a depunerilor, curăţarea camerei de ardere, pt. păstrarea motorinei şi bactericide, etc.

Eu am folosit Super diesel additive şi Diesel-Spülung. O cutiuţă din aiea de un sfert de litru ajunge pentru 70 de litri de motorină. Deci īl dozam cu seringa şi regula de trei simplă. :blush:

Şi chiar se simte, cānd fuge maşina de sub tine pānă aproape de roşu...

[Citronel Find all posts View Profile Close Citronel]

De remarcat ca din 2007 de cand au fost postate informatiile din link si pana acum nimeni nu s-a plans ca i-ar fi aparut probleme...

Sony daca tot folosesti aditivi ia incearca si cu 2T si vezi daca sesizezi diferente la motor, la pret ( ~25-35ron/l ) clar vei sesiza vine 1L de 2T la 200L motorina

p.s.
Cine nu are FAP poate merge pe ulei 2T corespunzator normei JASO FB ( daca e mai ieftin ), cine are FAP obligatoriu JASO FC sau mai bun FD.

[Citronel Find all posts View Profile Close Citronel]

Deci experimentul 2T la mine pe cele 2 masini motor 1.6HDI cu FAP:
- masuratorile sunt facute cu motorul rece pornit dimineata:
- ulei Mobil Extra 2T Semi Sintetic coresp. normelor JASO FC; ISO E-GC, E-GD; API TC; TISI la 1l ~35ron.
- pus ~200ml 2T si facut plinul cu motorina E4 de la Mol.
- km facuti cu 2T ~6km.

masina 1:






la cealalta masina nu am un log cu motorul rece pornit ininte de 2T am ceva log-uri dar in timpul mersului am sa le compar in timp dupa ce fac ceva km cu 2T la bord.

masina 2:




am sa mai pun masuratori dupa ce fac mai multi KM.

Luc.

[Dan Ionescu Find all posts View Profile Close Dan Ionescu]

Sa intelegem ca e de bine?sunt tare curios.

[Citronel Find all posts View Profile Close Citronel]

Deocamdata e prematur sa tragem o concluzie dar de rau nu este.
Masinile merg absolut OK pana acum am ~30km

Dupa 500-1000km sper sa pot trage o concluzie sa vad si FAP-ul cum se simte si daca merita sau nu sa folosesc 2T-ul.

[Citronel Find all posts View Profile Close Citronel]

Deci dupa ~ 1300-1500km de folosit 2T masinile se simt foarte bine, FAP-ul la fel a ajuns sa-si faca regenerarea la ~650-700km; e drept ca majoritatea km au fost la drum lung dar totusi inainte la drum lung FAP-ul parca se regenera pe la ~450km.

Consumul a scazut si el, am scos intre ~5.5 - 6.2 % combinat, asta la mers pe autostrada pe cruise, constant la ~130 km/h exceptie depasirile unde am dus-o ~150-170km/h.
Motorina folosita a fost Tempo Diesel de la Mol.

L.
p.s.
daca nu uit cand imi trece lenea o sa pun log-uri...

[to_zeus Find all posts View Profile Close to_zeus]

Si eu m-am lasat convins de argumentele aduse si de plinul asta am incercat si eu. La 70 litri de motorina am pus 300 ml de ulei de 2T facut de mol parca (dela am gasit la Dedeman pe unde aveam drum), nu stiu daca sintetic sau nu, dar e JASO FC. Am vreo 600 km facuti, nu s-a intamplat nimic deosebit, n-am observat nici o schimbare (dar sincer nici nu ma asteptam, banuiesc ca rezultatul e ca pur si simplu nu se duce pompa de inalta presiune). Nu am avut timp sa pun interfata pe ea, dar voi continua experimentul si revin cu constatari.

PS: Am uitat sa mentionez: 2 HDI 90 cai injectie SIEMENS, 204 000 are motorul.

[SonyAD Find all posts View Profile Close SonyAD]

Un articol bun despre motoare diesel.
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Commo...4/article.html

[PaunFD Find all posts View Profile Close PaunFD]

Poate cineva sa faca un rezumat, in limba romana, pentru neaveniti, la tot ceea ce s-a scris aici, va rog frumos!!! Ca asa, citind grafice si randurile scrise, ori ca-s in chineza, ori in engleza, ori in romaneste ... tot chineza suna, cel ptuin pt mine.

[alk Find all posts View Profile Close alk]

Citroen_c5...un update pls! Cum mai e acuma? Cati km ai mai facut? Am citit desprea asta acum ceva vreme dar inca nu ma incumet sa incerc.....

[bobovis Supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close bobovis]

Poate cineva sa faca un rezumat, in limba romana, pentru neaveniti, la tot ceea ce s-a scris aici, va rog frumos!!! Ca asa, citind grafice si randurile scrise, ori ca-s in chineza, ori in engleza, ori in romaneste ... tot chineza suna, cel ptuin pt mine.

Zau ca ai mare dreptate!:blush:

[Silver Find all posts View Profile Close Silver]

Nu e chiar asa complicat. Faceti comparatie la parametri de inainte cu ce de dupa.
Citroen_c5! Mai da detalii. Upgradeaza topicul la zi!!!

[Citronel Find all posts View Profile Close Citronel]

azi noapte m-am intors din Croatia, am fost cu ambele masini... acum pot sa updatez topicul:

Ambele masini (C5-II 1.6HDI 110CP -FAP ) au putin peste 4.000km de cand pun regulat 2T in motorina.
Masinile merg absolut ok, nici o problema la ele, motorul trage foarte bine;
Blacky are ~138.400km ( cu FAP-ul spalat de mine la 110.000 )
Blondy are ~95.400km ( cu FAP-ul original din fabrica )

la ambele masini ultima regenerare a FAP-ului a fost dupa >600km.

poate conteaza putin si faptul ca am pus pe ambele masini senzorul proiectat de mine ptr semnalizarea regenerarii FAP & Turbo Temp si ca urmare nu mai apar probleme de genul regenerare neterminata - intrerupta, dar totusi cred ca si 2T-ul are un efect benefic... mai putina cenusa.

Loguri:



consumul calculat de mine prin metoda plin la drumul acesta de ~1700km la blacky a fost 5.7l / 100km... si nu a fost un drum usor.






Astazi am mai cumparat 2L de 2T asa ca voi continua sa-l folosesc.

[SonyAD Find all posts View Profile Close SonyAD]

Păi ce e diferit?

Presiunea efectiv măsurată īn rampă coincide cu cea de referinţă īn timp ce īnainte de 2T diferea de cea de referinţă cu cāţiva bari.

La a 2-a maşină presiunea de referinţă īn sine diferă masiv īntre īnainte şi după 2T. Probabil are legătură cu temperatura apei, care e aceeaşi īnainte şi după 2T la prima maşină īn timp ce a 2 maşină era mai caldă un pic, 37° C faţă de 33° C, īn momentul testului după ulei 2T.

De unde şi avansul mai mic al injecţiei, 11° faţă 12° şi probabil presiunea de injecţie de referinţă mai mică şi poate debitul de aer mai mic, foarte probabil din cauza EGR-ului?

Unele corecţii de injector sunt mai mari, altele mai mici. Dar, per total, tot pe acolo e. Sau corecţii mai mari, per total. Iar altceva nu pare să difere, decāt debitul de aer şi temperatura apei.

Eu nu văd nimic concludent. Sau mă depăşeşte.
[edit]
Eu am răspuns referindu-mă la primul post cu informaţii diagnostice. Nu cel de deasupra, care a apărut īn timp ce scriam asta.